The Sorry State of Things

[katiefoolery]

Here's a quick quiz for you all. Tell me which of the following is correct:

1. There's plenty of options...

- or -

2. There are plenty of options...

Did you guess correctly? Are you aware that you have to use "are" with plurals and "is" with singular items? If so: congratulations! You're more intelligent than the new vice principal at my work.

Yesterday afternoon, we were treated that most pointless of creations: the work meeting. After a long and busy day, we all filed in to the staff lounge and prepared to be bored within an inch of our lives. Firstly, the principal read out information that had already been handily placed on a sheet of paper that we were all quite capable of reading ourselves. Perhaps he just wanted to make sure we were all still awake.

Then came the introductory speech of the new vice principal. She told us all about her adventures in working in the main office, the headquarters, if you will, of the Education Department. Or "at the region", as we call it in the trade. There she was, working on building curriculum and creating a well-educated state, without being able to properly conjugate one of the most basic verbs in the English language.

And let's not forget the fact she didn't know when to use "its" or "it's", as evidenced by her powerpoint display.

I sat there in the dark, grinding my teeth in annoyance and watching the education and literacy standards of today's youth disappear down a well of ignorance and illiteracy. What hope do the kids have when the people in high positions reveal themselves to be lacking in basic knowledge? It's all quite incredibly depressing.

What can be done about it? Personally, I think that the case is all but hopeless. A decision made by the education department in the seventies has ensured that nobody knows proper grammar any more. You see it on TV, in magazines on signs on windows - people don't know the basic concepts of stringing together letters and words in meaningful ways. In five years' time, I am willing to bet that nobody will believe me if I tell them that you don't use an apostrophe to indicate a plural.

Language is vital. Even more so now, with the majority of communication being carried out on the internet. You are judged by the words you use and the way in which you use them and to fail to give kids the tools with which to express themselves in a meaningful manner is one of the biggest crimes being committed in our country today. Why not just lock them all in small, dark rooms for the rest of their lives? We're taking away their ability to communicate and to express themselves and that is just not cricket.

In the past few years, I have befriended several people for whom English is not their first language and they have a better grasp of grammar than the average English speaker. They're taught respect for their language and how to construct and use it properly. No-one teaches respect for English. Some lucky people learn that for themselves. I, for one, love my language. I love its stupid rules and the way it's constantly breaking all of those rules. I love its versatility and the way it likes to create new words and new ways of using old words. I respect it and it's good to me in return.

The question is: how do we stop ourselves from producing generations of people who are unable to understand the very language they use to communicate? I'm only one person and I have no idea.

Comments

[the-wanlorn.livejournal.com]

I'm always terrified of commenting on grammar posts and fucking up something in my comment. That's a double shame for me, since I'm a Grammar Nazi.

The only way I can see this sad state of affairs changing is to get more Grammar Nazis in English departments across the (English-speaking) world. My saving grace is that my favourite teacher is a Grammar Nazi, so all of the rules and such were pounded into my head.

I suppose that's not a very reasonable approach, though. I mean, I have no interest in going into teaching, and I know that bunches of the people I meet who know how grasp "the basic concepts of stringing together letters and words in meaningful ways" are in science fields.

On the one hand, that's really weird. On the other hand, those are the "type" of people I tend to hang out with, so it makes sense that the concentration is there.

I suppose, what I'm trying to say, is that the situation is deplorable, but I don't know what to do about it.

[peachynat3.livejournal.com]

I'm exactly the same! I feel silly if I make a mistake when the post is about grammar. I think I'll leave it at that before I make a mistake :P

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

The worst one is where you suddenly realise you've written "grammer" by mistake. I almost did that once (my fingers thought they knew how to spell it better) but picked it up before anyone noticed, thank goodness.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

I know what you mean - I was feeling much the same thing when I was writing the post in the first place. How ironic it would have been to make a critical error in a rant about grammar and spelling.

The frustrating thing about the problem is that I can't understand why other people aren't seeing it and doing something about it. It makes me feel incredibly helpless.

[the-wanlorn.livejournal.com]

Honestly? And this is probably horrible of me and unfair and untrue, but...

...I blame linguists.

I can not count the number of times the linguistics teacher ranted about how language is an ever-evolving thing, and thus people like us are wasting time.

So, for every person saying, "Hey doofus, apostrophes do NOT GO THERE" there's someone telling that person it's okay.

Have I ever mentioned how much I hated that theacher, that class, and almost everything I "learned" in it?

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

I'm picking up a distinct vibe about that teacher there...

I, too, hate it when people bring up the whole "language evolving" concept. Yes, it does evolve, but I'd like to think it doesn't do it through ignorance. Because that sounds like regressing, rather than evolving.

[peachynat3.livejournal.com]

I had number 2 in my mind, mainly because the first one just didn't sit well with me and didn't sound right... that, and I feel like my use of the english language is a little too fancy like that, sometimes :P

As for your final question, I think reading is one thing that would help. I've always been an avid reader. I think because of that I was able to pick up on how words are used, as well as the rules of grammar and whatnot. That, and I used to be obsessed with my little electronic dictionary... I was a silly kid :P

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Yes, reading would help a good deal. I believe I learnt most of my grammar simply from reading so much and acquiring a sense of when things weren't right.

[jerrica28.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't it be nice if people could remember things they learned from elementary school? Honestly.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Yes - especially teachers and vice principals.

[gwyndolin.livejournal.com]

There is a problem with the education system. I learned more about grammar principles in German class than I ever did in English. Fortunately, I discovered Strunk and White early, and I read. And read. And read.

This is part of what we are lacking. Beyond teaching children basic principles, they're not reading enough to develop that inner ear. Just like Peachy said above. It also helps to grow up in a house where people speak properly. How I pity the Bush children.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

I agree absolutely - I learnt an incredible amount of English grammar when I was learning French and Indonesian. It's such important stuff.

In Australia, we've reached the point where the first generation to be exposed to this lack of grammar teaching has produced and brought up children and the results are appalling. As you said, children are learning from example and that example has been let down by their education already.

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

You see, this is why I plan to become a teacher. Too many adults don't know how to use grammar and punctuation, and these adults' total lack of concern for the language is producing a generation of people who just don't care. I also blame text-speak.

Oddly enough, as I see it, your first sentence is correct. "There's plenty of options." This may look weird, but "plenty" can be used as a singular noun, can't it? So "There is plenty" could work, right? The "of options" part is a dependent clause, and "There is" does not refer to "options"; instead, it refers to "plenty."

Or am I just confusing myself?

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

It's probably not the best example to choose, because I was thinking along the same lines as yourself. I think "plenty" is almost like a plural in itself when it doesn't have an indefinite object there. If I'd written "There's a multitude of options" or "there are a multitude of options", then the "there's" would definitely have been right. It was the only example I could remember from the vice principal's speech but it wasn't the only sin against grammar that she committed last night.

I was just mentioning that we're now seeing the results of kids being brought up by the first generation to be affected by the anti-grammar decision made by the education department. It's a mess.

And yes - text-speak doesn't exactly help anything.

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

So...which one would be correct? Or are they both correct? Would it be "There are plenty of options?" But we say things like "There is plenty of turkey; help yourself." Maybe it depends on whether the object that follows the noun is singular or plural?

And yes, I love this discussion. So grammar-geeky. And your vice principal should still be punished.

Poor kids. To phonics or not to phonics? That is just one of the many questions. Did you have to do phonics in school? I did, but the generation after me didn't.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Yes, you've hit on the right answer there - the conjugation of "to be" depends on the nature of the object that comes after "plenty of". "There's plenty of turkey" sounds correct, whereas "there's plenty of turkeys running around on the farm" doesn't.

It's great to have fellow grammar-enthusiasts with which to debate these topics!

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

It's sad that there are so few of us. Either that, or there are a lot of closet grammar enthusiasts.

There are plenty of turkeys running around here. I can't wait until spring, when we will see the little dust-mop babies dashing about.

[morbane.livejournal.com]

What about the consideration that 'plenty' can be used as a noun on its own as well as as a qualifier? (as as intentional even if clumsy!) For example, in the famous construction, 'The Land of Plenty', in which it is taken to be synonymous with abundance. That allows 'There is plenty' to be correct. :P But, as you pointed out, only if 'plenty' is clearly NOT being used as a quantitative qualifier.

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

*ponders* I think we've hit it, collectively. "Land of Plenty" refers to "plenty" as a singular concept, in which case "There is plenty" is correct, as you said. I feel pretty enlightened, actually!

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Oh definitely: "There is plenty" on its own is correct, without a doubt. This, I feel, is the problem with learning grammar from the other side. I really should go out and learn some more, instead of depending on what I've learnt simply by reading. It's so frustrating to know that something doesn't work, without being able to properly explain why.

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

This is why I love fellow grammarians (Mum has threatened to change my name to Marian, simply so that she can sing "Marian the Grammarian" to the tune of "Marian the Librarian") and the Bedford Handbook (6th edition). Both are fantastic for working out how to explain things.

There are still times, however, when I just have to tell people, "Sometimes, English is just weird."

[naelany.livejournal.com]

As a non-native English speaker, I thought I'd point something out to you. We don't get taught respect for our own language, let alone others (or is that other's?). If you're lucky, you have a good teacher who's able to grasp the concept of grammar. If you're luckier still, you're a student with the same ability. I suck at grammar. Always have, probably always will. I go mostly by feeling, both when I speak and when I write (and funnily enough, most of the time I'm not too far off base when I do so).
Anyway, I do think you're right. I cringe everytime I see a blatent misuse (mis-use?) of the language. Not just English, either. It's partly why I can't stand to hear most Dutch people speak English lol. They generally suck at it ^_~
Ok, that was my own tangent.....sorry about that ^_~ As for what we can do about the abuse of grammar/language.. just keep plugging away at it ourselves, stand as an example. By the by, if ever you see me make mistakes, do feel free to correct me. I'd rather know than be ignorant of it

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Well, fair enough. The friends I referenced in the piece spoke French and Hebrew respectively and they both told me stories of being taught proper grammar and respect for their language at school. I guess it depends on a great many factors, though.

Your English is great, Naelany. It's not an easy language to learn and I'm glad I got to grow up with it because I have no idea how I'd manage to remember all those rules and when to break them.

I only spotted one error in your comment and that was when you spelled "blatant" with an E instead of an A. Apart from that, you're doing brilliantly.

[naelany.livejournal.com]

*chuckles* it'd figure I'd mess that word up...thing is, I know better too. Typo-demon, I tell ya! Thank you for the compliment though.

And yes, it most definately depends on many factors. I would say that the french are sticklers for the rules of language though, which isn't a bad thing at all

[rigel-7.livejournal.com]

Ah Bunne! How I love thee!

*hugs*

My grounding in the wonders of our language came via a very enthusaistic Grade 5 teacher. I will love him always for that.

And doesn't it irk you on Ober that it says 'Members Message Board'
Where's the apostrophe?

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Hehe! I have to admit, I've been tempted several times to put an apostrophe there but I somehow manage to convince myself to hold back.

[gravityslave.livejournal.com]

I have tutorial leaders and professors who don't know. It's depressing, but if it were a sad alien, its face wouldn't show emotion. I didn't learnthe difference in high school, though- I learned it from my father a year ago when he was reading over one of my essays. (!!!!!!)

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

When I was writing my epic story of five girls and their horses (at the age of ten), I used to pop in apostrophes when I thought I hadn't used enough for that page. My dad used to tease me about it. "The girl's ran down the road," he'd read. "The girl's what?" I was in my second last year of primary school and I had absolutely no idea when and where to use an apostrophe. Mind you, I could spell like a champion, so I should be grateful for that, at least.

Thank goodness for parents who know what they're talking about.

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

Your dad is awesome. *grins*

[paulini.livejournal.com]

Num 2 is correct! ;)

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Well done. Now you're more than qualified to apply for a vice principal's job. ;)

[morbane.livejournal.com]

GAHHH!
I just did a survey for my own university. Well, more correctly, I was employed by a field research agency which was employed by a market research company which had Victoria University as a client in this particular instance.

Most relevantly, there was a question which involved me reading out statements:

"These ads... are interesting."
"These ads... are eye catching."
And:
"These ads... shows Victoria University to be an innovative university."
"These ads... shows that Victoria University offers academic rigour."

Not only had this flawed construction been approved by my university and its hired market research expert, but worse, when I read it out loud to my boss and coworkers to alert them to the mistake, they couldn't figure out what the problem was.

I was so disappointed.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

That is incredibly disappointing. You'd hope that universities, at least, still upheld the basic rules of grammar. It's even sadder that your own boss couldn't figure out what was wrong. I fear for the English language.

I'm afraid I've taken to being one of those annoying people who email corporations (such as the ABC and Metcard) to tell them about grammatical errors on their site. Sometimes it even works.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

On the up side, at least they hadn't written "show's"...