Correspondence

[katiefoolery]

Dear LJ,

Thanks for the good times, but I’m seriously considering saying goodbye to you.  Yes, even with some seven or eight months left on my PAID ACCOUNT.

I have always felt safe here... right up until some no-name, non-government-supported, vigilante group tried to make it even “safer”.  I don’t feel that sense of safety and homeliness any more.  Now I feel as though I should watch what I say; that I should be looking over my shoulder nervously every time I write a post or a comment.  I’ve even removed some of my interests out of paranoia.*

Oh, I added one, too: free speech.

I’m so sorry you felt pressured into doing what you’ve done and I’m sorry you made mistakes in doing that.  I’m sorry that an organisation with an essentially admirable aim has potentially alienated some thirteen million people across the globe.  I’m sorry that I just made a GJ account in case this all gets out of hand.

Communicate, LJ.  Tell us what’s going on.  Isn’t that what your news account is for?

Yours in frustration,
Katie.

EDIT> Want to protest? Here are some suggestions. And if you currently have a Plus account, consider switching back to basic. Perhaps a loss of ad-generated revenue will make LJ and 6A sit up and take notice.

EDITx2> Finally, an explanation from news... from the head of Six Apart. I guess we know for sure that LJ was not responsible now.

Click the banner for more info
(please be aware that this issue covers subjects such as child abuse -
don’t click the link if this is likely to upset or affect you)

* And who wouldn’t be paranoid when there are rumours abounding that simply listing an interest in certain mangas is enough to get your journal deleted?

Comments

[pitkat.livejournal.com]

wha-wha-what?
What happened? I must admit, I'm a bit behind on the times...

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Click on the banner for more info and links. :D

[pitkat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I did that right after the comment, and I'm a bit shocked. On one side, I can see what WFI is trying to do and it's admirable. However, there is a big difference between isolating illegal activity and merely crashing everyone who seemingly has a glossed over interest in something vaguely similar (if you can even say that). I though abuse was typically reported on an individual basis for this site anyway.

WFI posted some rather graphic entry snippets from journals they see as disturbing. And they were and are disturbing. It kind of reminded me of when everyone was up in arms over Cho's writing after the VT incident. That his fiction (although really bad) was a sign that he needed psychological therapy. Yet, what strikes me is that people don't consider that some individuals (not all) write graphic fiction as a way of excising their own abuse. Take it from someone who's gone through something similar. So, what LJ is saying is that if I were to write an entry about what happened to me, and it was too graphic for show, that they would remove me from my blog? What's the point of the healing process then? So often people use writing and art as a key tool. If everyone victim were profiled simply for that and labeled as a psycho or pedophile, it would drive those individuals to never talk about the pain and just stuff away. Meanwhile, the real pervs are going elsewhere. What's the cost for catching the real bad people?

Anyway, I digress. Sorry for the TMI, but this sort of thing hits a nerve. I complete understand reporting individuals who are outright promoting their fantasies and experiences abusing others. It's the victims trying to tell their story that I worry about. It's a sad line between safety and our entitlement to free speech. How far are you willing to go to ensure it?

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

I agree with you one hundred percent on all of that. WfI is definitely trying to do something good and make a difference - I genuinely do feel that. The only problem is that they're not doing their research and instead of attacking actual pedophiles, their actions are only hurting innocent people. Moreover, they're completely damaging any credibility they might have had.

So far, there's been a report that at least one community for survivors of child-abuse has been shut down... because they listed child-abuse as one of their interests. How is that helping to keep anyone safe? And as you say - how are people supposed to talk about their experiences if LJ is going to attack them for it? I suspect it's actually Six Apart that's behind these actions, but LJ's going to take the flack for it.

(I'm so sorry - I meant to put a warning above the link but I completely forgot. I'll fix that now.)

[gehdra.livejournal.com]

That was very well said, pitkat. Perhaps you could approach LJ with similar thoughts, in dignified and eloquent protest?

[rigel-7.livejournal.com]

*wails*

And yes... I know we are chatting ranting about this right now :P

This just makes me so angry - and I wouldn't touch rapefic, incest or chan with a 10 foot pole - but I'll happily go to war to defend people the right to read and create it.

We'll go to greatest journal if we have to - despite the hideous purple :D

Oh and permanent account? *hollow laugh*

Not a chance, now.

Way to alienate 2/3 of your userbase LJ

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Hehe! Well, no-one said the ranting had to be contained to one place. :D

The important thing is that we can understand that people who write rapefic or incest or chan don't actually condone it or carry it out in real life.

I do feel sorry for WfI - they've made such an horrendous mistake. And if LJ doesn't do some serious damage control, they might well have to kiss goodbye to their stranglehold on fandom.

[gehdra.livejournal.com]

The trouble is, if communities that are being/have been suspended move elsewhere, the same thing will happen to them in the long run. I know you were saying you might move, and not suggesting communities should, but just as a generalisation for some of the 'targets' I've seen in my wanderings since this post popped up on my flist ;)

And yes. It is a very good way to alienate 2/3 of their userbase. And while I don't believe moving will stop it from every happening, I am considering a move in protest of LJ's reaction to this silly WfI group.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Absolutely - any move from LJ would purely be in protest. I'm sure WfI will keep going about their admirable aim in a misguided way - nothing will stop that. But at least GJ isn't owned by Six Apart... and my suspicion is that 6A was behind the deleting of journals.

[vicky-v.livejournal.com]

It'll probably take me a while to fully understand the story (I don't have any sort of political mind whatsoever) but let me guess. This WfI group, although their intentions seem to be good, seem to think that all writing is a reflection of the author. There are no words. I'll just reunite my head with the desk. Supposedly 'Death Note' as an interest gets you into trouble. I read a certain manga series, therefore I'm going to molest kids ... huh?

Their intentions are good, they're just appear to be going the wrong way about it. That's probably why I roll my eyes and snort in disgust when I see their name.

Anyway, time to keep catching up.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Yep - that's about the size of it. It doesn't make any sense. And I still can't believe that LJ acted on behalf of an organisation that isn't supported by anything official at all. Although I do haave a sneaking suspicion that Six Apart actually forced the issue here.

I do feel sorry for WfI - they have good intentions but they've missed their target completely.

[the-kaytinator.livejournal.com]

*is utterly shocked*

Holy... Crap...

What is WRONG with people? Seriously?

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is that they forgot to use their brains when they were planning this whole thing. Or, you know, do some research.

[naelany.livejournal.com]

ok, I went and followed the link you provided, but I'm still hazy on what exactly is going on. I feel like a dunce for asking, but... can you clarify it more for me?

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm condensing the issue a lot here, but:

1. An organisation calling themselves "Warriors for Innocence" has taken it upon themselves to track down child-abusers on the internet. Which is a noble aim. However, they don't appear to be an official, or even legal, organisation.

2. They decided to go after LJ, on the basis that anyone who's a child abuser would list child abuse as an interest. LJ initially refused to act, saying that they couldn't find evidence that any of the people WfI was attacking had condoned or encouraged child abuse.

3. WfI persisted and (I'm assuming) went to Six Apart, LJ's parent company.

4. As of barely twenty-four hours ago, some five hundred journals and communities were deleted. Many of these were journals of role-playing characters or long-standing fanfic archives. At least one of the affected communities was a community offering support for sufferers of child abuse. Essentially, hundreds of innocent people have been attacked and had their journals deleted.

5. There have also been rumours that people with "dubious" icons (such as ones containing slash) have had their journals deleted.

The problem is that LJ (or Six Apart) has refused to make any statement about the issue, or confirm or deny anything.

[naelany.livejournal.com]

What's "slash"?

It seems odd to me that all this is happening, but nothing is being said about it from LJ's point. Why do this, and then not acknowledge it. Aside from your entry, I've seen or heard nothing about any of this, which strikes me as odd. Granted, I don't belong to any such communities, but you'd think it'd come up elsewhere, too?

And I agree, the sentiment of going after child abusers is a good one. But really... do they think that any child abuser is going to be stupid enough to flag himself like that? Isn't the whole point of what they do, to do so without raising flags to themselves? They usually are quite cunning and do everything surreptitiously. And yes, I do speak from the standpoint of an abusee.

I hope LJ comes to its senses, and that the people doing all of this get their heads straight again. What they want is noble. How they're going about it, is not. In fact, it could be construed as harrassment, as well as (I think this is the word for it, since it's written) liable.

Thanks for trying to explain it to me, Katie

[naelany.livejournal.com]

check out the news post, they finally made a statement, and it looks like they're working on matters ^_^

[seagull-fred.livejournal.com]

*rubs temples*

I've been link-clicking for more than an hour, trying to fully understand this entire issue. I've suddenly realised wot a behemoth LJ really is. It's phenomenal!! No wonder it's all hit the fan. Everything's so confused that I can't even tell where the original rumour/problem even started.

Hopefully LJ will pull through alright.

And I've also suddenly discovered the real meaning of fandom, and to be honest, it kind of scares me...

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

I just want LJ to tell us what's going on. My suspicion is that it's Six Apart, the parent company, that forced the deletions... but no-one knows anything for sure. We're working on rumours and second-hand evidence and the longer it goes on with no comment from LJ, the worse the situation looks.

I'm intrigued by your comment on fandom, though. What is it you've discovered and why does it scare you? (If you don't mind my asking.)

[poisonheadache.livejournal.com]

I'm really glad you posted about this. Because I'm not involved in any fandoms, it had completely passed me by. I spent some time reading the links and getting to know the situation.

I have to say that WFI make me very uneasy. I spent some time reading their blog and I'm not entirely sure that they're dealing with child abuse in a helpful way. They seem to be more about scaremongering than anything else. Whilst I wholeheartedly support action against child abuse, I think it's important to make distinctions between people who are "grooming" and/or carrying out abuse and the people who have written a fanfic story about Harry Potter and Snape having sex.

I can see that LJ might have been influenced by WFI's "everyone is guilty" policy. Reading some of WFI's blog made me feel uneasy about my own interactions with children. One particular post warns against adults who:

"want to lure the child away by offering praise and compliments- “you’re beautiful, you should be in magazines or on television.”"

A few weeks ago I was in a supermarket and told a little girl that she looked very pretty. After reading WFI, I started feeling sleazy reading WFI, when all I'd wanted to do was to be nice to that kid. There's just something off about WFI.

As for the mass deletion of fanfic and fandom in general - I'm appalled. I'm sure there are real life child abusers on LJ, but all this action will have sent them underground. The majority of people who will pay for this are people involved in RP and fandom and that's just wrong. I think it's really sad that LJ has done this, especially when their earlier emails to WFI were straightforward and eloquent about their TOS and policies.

On a purely selfish level, I hope you don't leave. I would miss your posts. I would understand if you decided to though. This whole situation has made me look at LJ in a whole new light.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Your post is just another reason why I'm convinced WfI is doing more harm than good. They seriously do not appear to live in the real world. And last time I looked, they were claiming the credit for the deleted journals but telling everyone we couldn't blame them, because it's "up to LJ to make these decisions". So, are they responsible or not?

Clearly, if they've made you feel like that about a simple compliment, then they're failing in their aim. They seem to be attacking everyone but the actual criminals.

I do believe that this is Six Apart's doing, not LJ's. As you said, LJ was resistant to act earlier on. I can only assume WfI went over their heads to Six Apart and that's when stuff started to happen. It's very sad. I don't want to leave LJ - I'd miss too many people - but I don't feel comfortable here any more.

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

*clings to you* No leaving LJ. I would miss you horrifically and, while that's completely selfish, I also believe that LJ will pull through this mess intact.

I completely missed this whole thing, probably because I'm not involved in any fandoms right now.

Darth Vader also disapproves of you leaving. I am going to go and do more research on this issue after I eat something so that my brain will be functioning when I do.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

*clings back*

I really don't want to leave - I would miss everyone horribly. When I posted this entry, I was just feeling really unsafe and I don't like feeling that way on LJ, especially not when it's always felt like my internet home.

I do hope LJ works something out here. There should have been a news post the minute this started and the lack thereof only makes them look guilty. The latest news post went from six pages of comments some eight hours ago... to forty when I just looked before. Thirty-four pages of people wanting to know what's going on and there's still no news.

[crazedturkey.livejournal.com]

it's up to 100 now. I wish those dickheads would pull their fingers out. FFS...they're just making things a thousand times worse!!

You know, I probably could have forgiven these deletions eventually, based on the fact that it's a TOS thing, and in the end, its their server. But WHY AREN'T THEY TALKING? Bloody hell!!

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Well, we all saw how good LJ is at communicating with its PAYING CUSTOMERS during the stuff-ups of a few days ago. I think Six Apart is refusing to let them talk, quite simply. But who can say for sure when we're greeted with nothing but silence?

[elfie-chan.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering if LJ even really knew about it, or if the people who suffered strikethrough did so for some other reason.

Still, LJ needs to get something out there so that people know what's going on.

[flippyfrog.livejournal.com]

I had such a panic this morning, I strolled onto my LJ to find for some reason it had been halted. Now, it was probably because all the madness that's been going on things on LJ aren't working smoothly, but I was so panicked wondering what the hell was in my journal that would justify being caught up in all this? Now, the answer is absolutely nothing (unless you think being caught up in Torchwood dangerous... who knows the way things are going) But I'm in such a freaked out state instead of first thinking, "oh, LJ having a hiccup" I think "fuck, have they deleted my account?"
I don't like that feeling at all.

But I told you last night, you go, I go.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

And that's it in a nut-shell - no-one feels safe or comfortable any more. People who have nothing to fear suddenly feel guilty, because who knows what'll get the next wave of journals deleted?

I hope I don't have to go, but it's certainly nice to know I'll have plenty of company. :D

[crazedturkey.livejournal.com]

(((Katie)))

If you go, I'll probably go to.

so don't go :(

This whole thing sucks so much. :( :( :(.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

*hugs back*

I don't want to go. :( I just feel so unsafe and uncomfortable now. And I kinda wish Six Apart would let LJ tell us what's going on.

[purpletigress.livejournal.com]

Gee, this is a really interesting one, and as someone who isn't involved in the fandoms it completely passed me by too. I think it's very dangerous to link someone's writing to actions. Whenever there's been a school massacre people have pointed to things the attackers have written, and you know what? It's exactly what I was writing as a troubled teen with the isolation of being a troubled teen. It was how I coped, and I can imagine there would be a lot of people writing things that may be misconstrued and banned here.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't be up for scrutiny for what they write online - this is a public forum after all - but I do think there needs to be closer examination, communication between both parties, and certainly communication between LJ and their users. As a proud supporter of freedom of speech, this troubles me greatly.

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

I read something very similar in the paper the other day. There was a case recently where two year eleven girls committed suicide together and everyone was pointing to their MySpaces and online writing, exclaiming over how dark and miserable it was and no wonder they did what they did. And other people were saying, "Well, I wrote stuff like that when I was a teenager, too, but no-one ever knew, because the internet wasn't available then".

LJ, or Six Apart, is really doing themselves a disservice here. Answers have been demanded and none have been forthcoming.

[purpletigress.livejournal.com]

Looks like we're starting to get some answers now, and more will be forthcoming. I'm feeling a lot better since LJ made their announcement on the mainpage.

[bethamphetam1ne.livejournal.com]

Gosh, I survived it and didn't even know it was happening!

Yes, I can see the original intended purpose but FFS! Why don't we go down to the library and burn some Enid Blyton books as well?? Who let this mob onto the premises anyway?

Will I get deleted because I have Spike/Lynda in my interests and their relationship is anything but functional??

[katiefoolery.livejournal.com]

Well, that's the question - what interest will cause journals to be deleted next?

I believe Six Apart let them in. LJ was doing a fine job of defending its TOS until WfI went to Six Apart instead. Of course, that's just my theory - nobody actually knows anything for sure.

Citation as source for fandom linguistics paper?

[lily_winterwood]

Hi katiefoolery!
I was wondering if it would be possible at all for me to cite you as a source in my paper for the OTW Journal on cultural and linguistic differences between Tumblr and Dreamwidth? Please let me know if you are willing, and if so, how you would like to be cited (your username or a different name).
Thanks,
Lily